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PRISONERS LIBERATED? Jasun Horsley on Ufos, social engineering, psychology of fragmentation; Charles Messina on prison conversion to Islam
 
<figure>Conversion to Islam in prison—which helped transform Malcolm X—is the single biggest factor preventing recidivism</figure>

Tonight we welcome two guests with amazing stories of imprisonment and liberation.

First hour: Jasun Horsleyis the author of Prisoner of Infinity: Ufos, social engineering, and the psychology of fragmentation.  His book, and our conversation, raises such questions as: Is ordinary reality a kind of imprisonment? Are we prisoners of our conditioning, and the narratives they impose on us? Is reality beyond the walls of Plato’s cave much vaster and more stunningly beautiful than most of us could ever imagine? But if so, are certain quasi-shamanic pathways purportedly offering liberation through trauma just another, maybe even nastier, prison?

Prisoners of Infinity considers such questions by way of a close examination of the career of self-styled UFO contactee Whitley Streiber. Horsely suggests that Streiber may be a victim of organized abuse, and that his alleged abductions by aliens could be screen memories masking severe trauma. The picture that emerges is a disturbing one: Intelligence agencies and secret societies may be using trauma-based mind-control not only to create Manchurian candidates, super-soldiers, and psychics, but also to re-engineer our society in service to their own wealth and power.

So if occultism and engineered trauma aren’t the best routes out of “prison,” then what is? Many experts, from René Guenon to Charles Upton, say the answer is traditional religious spirituality.

Second hour: Charles Messina, a.k.a. Hasan Abdul Hakim, describes his prison conversion to Islam. Charles wrote me a while back:

“Would you do a show about my Experience going through the US-Miltary 1972 Vietnam Veteran [Era].. then going through the [CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM]- While in the Belly of the Beast [NYS-Prison]-1977-1984 Reverting to Islam from Sunni to Shia-? Then going on to how Trump affected the Union Of [International Association of Bridge Structural & Reinforcement Ironworkers] First Responders after 9-11…”

In this interview we cover the story through Charles’ prison conversion, saving the Trump-9/11 stuff for a possible future interview.