Joan of Arc, Cap'n Jazz, Owls, and Make Believe frontman Tim Kinsella has long been a source of creative inspiration for me. So it was such an honor to have him on the show, and a pleasure to talk with him. The conversation is wide-ranging, but also intense.

We talk about music, of course; but also the occult, how art happens to us and why, the merits of making audiences uncomfortable, why utopia motivates us, modernism and ghosts.


• To get you started on Tim's music, I've made a playlist on spotify that demonstrates its breadth and strangeness and inventiveness. Here you go.

• There's an excellent documentary about Joan of Arc (primarily focusing on Tim) from Noisey called Your War (I'm One Of You): 20 Years Of Joan Of Arc , and I highly recommend it.

• Also on Noisey, Tim ranks Joan Of Arc records from his favorite to least favorite. I almost agree with him!

• Tim is an editor at Featherproof Books (who put out Zachary Schomburg's novel - in fact, Tim edited that book!). They put out some really great stuff, including some of Tim's books, like, The Karaoke Singer's Guide To Self Defense, and his tour diary, All Over and Over. Tim also has a novel called Let Go and Go On and On about the actress Laurie Bird, who committed suicide at 26 (photo of her below).

• If you haven't yet seen Grizzly Man, it's a great documentary (Herzog's ramblings aside).

Meditations on the Tarot by Anonymous is one of the most profound occult books ever written.

Mark Robinson is a weird, happy genius, who started the bands Unrest, Flin Flon, Air Miami (and more!), as well as Teen Beat Records, which still delivers easy and amiable indie pop heaven. 

• Here's the Frontline documentary on Charlottesville. Watch and try to breathe slowly.

• I mention the AEWCH episode with Scott Thompson from the Kid in the Hall. Here it is! 

• I mention lyrics from the Joan of Arc song "As Black Pants Make Cat Hairs Appear" Here's the whole thing:

As Black Pants Make Cat Hairs Appear

As black pants make cat hairs appear,
So I have in the past made.

Everyone without and still but somehow.
Everyone's without but still somehow.

This medium is longing gone,
Teach me cheating,
And coat your slow choking,
If it fits or if it's me,
Soft blood in water,
And chuckle turns cough,
Hide you inside me,
Talk me into you,
If it fits or if it's me,
What could sure be me.

Everyone without and still but somehow.
Everyone's without but still somehow.

Then the war came and we all found work.
Who'd have known in farming communities in central Illinois as early as the mid 1950s, Catholic priests already invented altar boys. Cocky and sweet cheeked 13 year old kids.

These uneven and quiet or even unsaid,
Connections must be something
These uneven and quiet or even unsaid,
Connections must be something.

Peter Sloterdijk is a contentious figure, but I feel there's a lot to take interest in and learn from in his work, even if you can't get on board with some of it. His book You Must Change Your Life is one of his best.

• If you are so inclined to read the Piers Anthony Incarnations of Immortality series (which hasn't exactly aged well in every way). On a Pale Horse is the first one, about a man who becomes Death.

We Must Move Backwards To Progress 

Until next week, friends!

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