MGTOW - The Nice Guy Complex in Seven Stages
Welcome back MGTOW men. Today, today, I’m going to touch on how trying to be the nice guy, and being the nice guy can include so many things, will make you fail. Maybe…fail, isn’t the right word. It might drive you insane, or most importantly and most dangerously, being a nice guy will prevent you from reaching your full potential, which is an even scarier thought now that I ponder it.

You don’t just not the girl, oh no, you never reach your full potential. I don’t know about you guys, but for me, that is one of my biggest fears, bar none. If we are not reaching out full potential, that means there are things out there not yet achieved that we could have achieved, and I believe that you can only achieve that which is in you. You can only be judged for example according to your potential, and if being a nice guy keeps you from potential, you are are clearly not meant to be a nice guy.

Ultimately – men were not meant to be nice guys.

You don’t even have to go MGTOW or hear of MGTOW or hear of the red pill to know that nice guys finish last. Nice guys finish last, actually – Hollywood actually got that one right, good work Hollywood.

Nice guys finish last, but for some reason, we don’t think that they finish last when we first enter into a relationship, and many times, it is us, the men. The one with more innate aggression and testosterone are the nice guys. What’s going on here?

I think that there are a couple of reasons, and this is not the point of the talk today, but I’ll point to a couple of them really quick to offer a template for today’s talk:

  • Single mother homes – whatever the reason.
  • The proliferation of the notion that the family structure is not important.
  • No positive masculine role models.
  • Widespread propagandizing of toxic masculinity as a truth
  • The convenience culture of the western world
    • Physical labor is not needed
    • Men do not develop physically, and thus they don’t utilize testosterone in a positive sense.
  • The androgyny of the media
    • Just look at the clothes that men are wearing today – it is not masculine, and very much so possesses female characteristics.

Because of this, more men are encouraged to be nice. Myself included, and you are in for an even more potent of a wake-up call when you get into a relationship and you come from a background when you were raised in the church and the idea of being a man is not being a strong man, not really being a leader – instead, you’re so called a leader when you’re moral. You’re a leader by just being passive, humble, not causing harm and being respectful to people. It’s more than that, and when you get into a relationship and you don’t know how to draw lines in the sand and flip over tables when needed, you get caught in a buzz saw. I’ve been there, and our MGTOW brother has been there before, and this is the foreboding line that he left me at the end of our email correspondence earlier this month:

Nice guys only remain nice long enough to either die off, or turn into the thing women complain about the most.


Your relationship isn’t just at stake if you’re a nice guy. Your career is, your self-actualization, your mental health and even your life can be, and let’s see why in a story of a man that was genuinely doing all that he could, but in the end all that he could was actually a thorn in his side.

“Thought I would send you an email”

Now, before I begin – just the fact that this guy send an email with this title likely indicates how dejected he is. How defeated he is at the current time. Also, I will not be reading every element of the tale for you that emailed me for the preservation of time.

As the title of this email states I figured I’d send you an email. This is the first time I have sent a YouTuber an email. I figured I had nothing to lose. Whether or not you actually read it doesn’t matter much to me at this point. I say this solely based on my current mood on the things going on in my life.

I’m a 27 year old male who has been struggling with a lot of things in their life. Relationships seem to be a major downfall for me.

I discovered Mgtow a few years ago via youtube. Turd Flinging Monkey wa my main sources of mgtow content at the time. I was going through a rough time with my old roommate. We had been best of friends up to the point she decided she wanted to date me. From this point it all went downhill for me. The entire friendship fell apart once she had dumped me. I was very much a blue pill man at the time.

I had hoped that the relationship between the two of us could improve. We rented an apartment together with two dogs. It was a tiny apartment but it was good at the time. I worked full time at a retail job where she also worked. We worked in different departments. I was paying most of the bills while working full time. My roommate who we will call, Britt, was only working four hours a day a few days a week. She refused to get more hours at her job despite making a lot more than me.

Everyday I had to comfort her due to her mental illnesses. If anything bad happened at work she would freak out like a child when she got off work. I was the one who remained by her side until she felt better. I cooked the food for the apartment, cared for the dogs, and even let her use my car to go back and forth to work all the time.

Eventually after the relationship ended she began to tell me that I wasn’t her friend. Kept telling me that all I did was pretend to be her friend. Despite everything else to prove otherwise I was the bad guy in every situation. I was a prick, an asshole, and a complete dick according to her.

I worked full time while also buying the groceries, cleaning the apartment, taking care of my dog. But, it was never good enough for her apparently. I wasted a lot of my money on the girl. Eventually we fell behind on our rent because I couldn’t afford everything on my own. The car insurance payments, food, rent and the like. I kept telling her that she needed to talk to her boss to get more hours but she refused. Claimed her feet wouldn’t be able to handle it.

The switch has been flipped – The Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation

I began to dive into the mgtow ideals the day after she told me we could work out our issues, and then slept with our neighbor and told me about it, and then told me she did so to hurt me. It is when I began to become jagged towards women, or so my friends told me.

A time came when the apartments bathroom wall collapse. It was in an old apartment complex so there was nothing we could of done about it. With nowhere else to go my parents offered me and her the two rooms they had available in their home. Everything was fine up to this point until a night came that, Britt tried to end her life.

A few months after this she moved back home to be with her mother again. We kept in contact still until I ended it. I had enough of her lectures and criticism so I blew up on her before blocking her completely. I’ve never looked back since then. It might of been childish of me to blow up on her out of the blue. It is equally childish that I blocked her right after saying my peace. I know she hated not having the last word and I wasn’t going to give her the satisfaction.

Nice guys learn slow, but forget fast

Fast forward to today and I’ve run into a similar situation. I had began to date a old childhood friend of mine from my childhood last summer. I have been renting the upstairs of my folks two story home while trying to save money. Due to car issues I have had a hard time finding a more secure job like I had last time.

The girl I started dating, who I will call Cat, was very nice at first. Eventually it came a time when her and her mother got kicked out of her sisters home. I took them both into my families home to help them. Cat’s mother had always been a close family friend to us since I was younger.

Cat worked at a hotel that was in a different city from me. A 30 minute drive from where I lived. Attending her Bible study once her boss offered her more hours, and a male friend of hers offered her a place, which she took. At first I was fine with this. It began to go downhill from this point.

Before when me an Cat would spend most of the day talking to each other it went to one worded replies. Knowing me I was a bit confused about this. I had thought to myself that I had met a woman who was completely different then the rest. Come to find out the male friend she stayed with had wanted to date her. When he got drunk he would hit her, abuse her, but she tolerated it. There was also the issue of her talking to another guy on the side. I didn’t know about this until our first breakup.

Signs of BPD

After we broke up I was destroyed. Cat made me believe she was pregnant for two months before admitting the truth. It was shortly after that point that I cut off all communications with her. I had lost a decent job because of panic attacks, worry, and stress. I have never had children in my life. If I did I always wanted it to be with one person. If this girl was pregnant then I was worried the male friend would kill them both.

There were times she told me to come fetch her but canceled on me as I was on my way to her place.

Fast forward to this thanksgiving. Her mother was still living with me and wanted to have Cat at the house for the holiday. I made slight amends with Cat to make this happen. I cared about her mother so I wanted to do what I could. Once me an Cat talked we decided to give it another go. I figured why not, ignoring the red flags in my head, all because she gave me a bit of happiness I had not experienced much in my life before.

A few days before thanksgiving she dumped me due to partying with a old friend of hers. Apparently he had gotten drunk once and told her that she deserved to be hit. When I pointed out that her other friend did hit her the girl would hear none of it.

Fast forward to the present day and I’m beyond angry with myself for how I let her treat me. I have doubled down on my mgtow lifestyle. Cat wanted to get a hotel with me in the city she lives so I could get a job there. I was tempted to do so until her ex-boyfriend called her from prison. Here is a man who cheated on her, beat her, and everything under the sun and she was talking to him again. He told her he was getting out on parole soon.

The city she lives in has three major cities close to each other. A 15 minute drive to each with hers being In the middle. I decided to not take her up on her offer. She told me I had one day to make it up there before she cut me from her life. I told her to have a good life because I won’t be around if she continues talking to her ex-boyfriend, nor would I be threatened.

I have my car fixed up an will be driving to one of the three towns tomorrow. It is almost tax season which means I can use that money to get me a place out there. I will not be getting a place in the city she is.

Every time I get into a relationship my life goes downhill. The times I focus on myself I can get ahead. Probably because I know I can make it better that way without worrying about someone else. We will see.

A quick description of, Cat. She is 29 years old with two kids. Both children were taken by their father. She has no car. Works for the hotel she lives at in a tiny room right now. Has no family members that will really help her. Time has not been to kind to her because she looks older than she is.

Nice guy explanations

I am to kind for my own good. I have always been kind and considerate with everyone I met. I have recently begun to be a total dick to people. [Cue the Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde switch].

I’ve blown up on a few women who have showed me interest In the last couple of months. I have no desires to date again. I don’t even want to interact with females right now. [Red pill rage].

I may be overreacting. I may just be seeing things for how they truly are and am not taking steps to improve my life on my own terms. I am going to begin to focus on building my own nest egg for retirement. A feat that will be more easily accomplished without a female leeching off of me.

Letting things simmer down

I couldn’t think of a better title for the email.

I just wanted to clarify. I was in a bad place when I was writing that email. It did help get my mind on straight.

A quick update on my life. I have two more interviews next week for good career building jobs. I’ve put work into my car so it runs a lot better. Money I would of spent on Cat was spent more wisely. I am still plagued by my decision to not pursue Cat anymore. Could call it the part of me that still believes in the ideals of marriage. I came from a broken home myself. Being a hopeless romantic doesn’t make It any easier.

Cat has been contacting me a lot lately. Her entire attitude seems to have changed since I stopped bothering or showing interest. I’ve been ignoring a lot of her messages. The few I respond are just to spite her like she used to me. I have in a sense turned the tables around and began to treat her how she has wanted to treat me the entire time we dated. I have no illusions that things could eventually work out between me an her. Insanity is defined by repeating a certain action and expecting a different outcome.

We expect a different outcome every time we date someone new and then we get angry that it turned out exactly the same way.

Nice guys only remain nice long enough to either die off, or turn into the thing women complain about the most.

The most logical thing I can do for myself, any man in my opinion, is to walk away from all women as you have said. Nothing will ever change unless we make it change. I am doing that now by focusing on myself. I will do what is needed to get my life on the right track. If I am focusing only on myself I can save money easier. I can survive a lot better this way which makes me excited for once about my life again.

I have you to thank for all of this.

The seven stages of being the nice guy

My man, thank you for taking the time to share this with me. Also, you said that you typed this out on your phone? God bless you man. I will get direct messages or tweets from people that I think about responding to, but I won’t even respond to until I get to my computer because of how much I hate typing on my phone, so God bless, haha.

So man, I’m not being condemning in any way about your situation here, but based on the words that I have extracted from this email, I have put together a list of seven steps in the stage of a nice guy – from the heat of the relationship to the point that he moves forward with MGTOW. I believe that I can speak on this because I have seen it reflected in my life. I have been that guy.

  • “I wanted to do what I could” – The helping phase
  • “I figured, why not? I was just ignoring red flags though.” – The dismissal phase
  • “I’m beyond angry with how I let her treat me.”- The resentment phase
  • “I have always been kind and considerate with everyone that I have met. But now, I have recently begun to be a dick to people.” – Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde
  • “I’m plagued by not pursuing Cat anymore – I came from a broken home myself.” – Realizations of the past / reflection
  • “Her attitude started to change since I stopped bothering her.” – Taking the alpha lead
  • “The most logical thing that I can do for myself – any man in my opinion, is to walk away.” – Moving on with MGTOW

Right here is a rough sketch of what I deduced from your narrative as the seven most pronounced stages of a relationship for a nice guy. The reason that I selected these exact stages is that a nice guy is number one a giver. You were giving everything. You were giving your time, you were giving your heart, your home and your car even for that person to commute. Nice guys will be there to solve any issue, even if it isn’t there issue, thinking that no matter what, that will keep the relationship afloat.

Nice guys, as reflected in the dismissal of the red flags stage will aim to keep conflict out of the picture. Conflict was there. You were trying to improve her life, but that wasn’t happening. She wasn’t accepting it. You continued on though. Her self-abuse and lying. I have done all of this, pushing things to the side, even when they needed addressing.

Nice guys are resentful of other people. Man, the resentment emerges not when you are speaking up against something that you know needs to be said because you need to stop something that is not being stopped in order to keep the status quo. Man, that is a highway to resentment right there, and nice guys are very resentful because of this. Man, have I been resentful.

Nice guys have two sides. They are exceedingly nice, obviously. But conversely, they are bitter and mean on the other end, and this curtails off the resentment, as resentment flows naturally into rage. It’s a precursor.

When the relationship has stalled and you move on you think about what got you there. Nice guys have often been from broken homes where there was no stability and nobody tried. You are trying to create a cushioned room in which everyone involved that you care about wins. That’s impossible to achieve.

Now, you finally have a chance to be an alpha, and you notice that the more you distance yourself, and you’ll often notice this after breakups, the more that she respects you. Now, she doesn’t see you as needy. That’s the biggest turn off for women.

Lastly, you acquiesce. Maybe the red pill rage stage is in there, but I’d connect that with stage four. Now you’re going MGTOW, and that’s where you are right now. You’re using your time for yourself and you’re finally making steps in a productive direction. I hope that you can continue that way man. This is the path that I followed, because I guarantee you that I was the nice guy in pursuit. That dovetails into tomorrows video, the fact that the alpha never pursues. Stay tuned. It’s a gym-oriented edition, so watch out.


So, men. Have you been a nice guy? Are you still one? Do you know one? Tell them to stop. There is a great book that I’m referencing “No More Mr. Nice Guy” by Robert Glover. Maybe check it out. It’s a dire thing, as you’ll not just fail in any relationship in life, you won’t be who you want to be in life. Period.

Share your story with me men, I’m willing to share, as thank you to the brother that shared his with me last month.

Also, as always, at the end of each video I’ve been announcing that I want to put together a book – a collection of stories from MGTOW men sharing how they came to MGTOW and what MGTOW has done to benefit them. To take part in that, let me know at [email protected] or on Twitter @sunrisehoodie.

Hoodies up men, hoodie is out.