MRAs dondu nuffin! and other "robust feminist arguments" | HBR Talk 97

In the interest of equal time, I’ve decided to channel some of the feminist opposition to men’s rights advocacy that I’ve encountered on clown world… er, I mean twitter. Should be along any minute. I’ll just wait here until… hey, what the hell is THAT?

Men’s rights? What? What’s the matter with you guys? You claim to care about men, but what do you do for them?

What have you ever even accomplished? You don’t even really talk about men’s issues. All you do is bash whammon! How dare you criticize feminism? Feminism is about equality! Feminists are not your enemy and they don’t hate men, you evil, over-privileged, misogynistic pigs!

It’s feminists that get things done by publicly agitating for changes to law and policy! Also, feminism is not to blame for any of the feminist-lobbied law and policy that discriminates against men, because the people who listened to them and did as they demanded were male legislators and CEOs, and the Feminists Who Don’t Do Anything disapprove of their actions.
Don’t point to times when politicians have introduced legislation based on and supported by feminist propaganda, like Joe Biden’s citation of Mary Koss’s research in support of the Violence Against Women act. Only data from studies counts as evidence of the movement’s influence! Direct evidence doesn’t prove anything!

Well, except when we’re talking about equal pay. Then studies don’t matter because feelings!

It’s misogyny to expect pay equality to rely on work equality. You just don’t value whammon’s choices!

We need more whammon in every profession we consider prestigious or powerful, and it’s ok to pressure girls to enter those professions even if they don’t want to. Screw whammon’s choices, because equality!

Don’t you dare bring up jobs that are dirty, uncomfortable, difficult, labor-intensive, or high risk. We’re certain there are thousands of girls begging for a chance to become sewer maintenance workers or power line repair technicians, if men would only let them have those jobs!

And how dare you call Selective Service a men’s issue! Don’t you know whammon are wrongfully excluded from the experience of being considered property of their federal government - literally chat… uh, cannon fodder -  denied the chance to be forced into a tour of indentured military service at the risk of life and limb. Some feminist organization half-heartedly complained about it once like 30 years ago, so it’s a whammon’s issue. Check your privilege, guys!

Besides, if you really wanted to help men you’d be talking about transmen and  transwomen in the military instead of talking about the draft! Also, bathrooms and air conditioning are sexist. Why aren’t you talking about that?

Why don’t you advocate for gay men’s rights? Don’t point to anything YOU’VE said or done to prove that you actually do. What did I tell you about direct evidence? 

Why aren’t you obsessively dividing your movement by skin color, national origin, gender identity, sexuality, disability, religious background, birth order and shoe size, like we do? You can’t possibly advocate for men unless you have a special, separate discussion about the same issues for every different personal characteristic by which a guy’s position in society might be classified! Sure, you have mentioned rape victims, but have you ever had someone speak about left-handed and ambidextrous rape victims at one of your events? Obviously you only care about the experiences of right-handed rape victims, you sinistrophobic bigots! 

Stop complaining that the majority of deaths by suicide are men and boys! Cry me a river! Whammon-n-girls attempt suicide far more. Just because more men die from it doesn’t mean they’re important to talk about. This isn’t the oppression olympics, you know!

If you really cared about male suicide you’d be talking about toxic masculinity. Guys just have to learn that it’s ok for them to cry. You know, express their feelings, like whammon do!
Well, except... a dude shouldn’t cry because he’s feeling isolated or lonely as a result of being socially marginalized, because that’s too entitled and misogynistic… and certainly not over being estranged from his children after getting divorced, and he’s not allowed to express pain or anger over that, because that’s an attack on the mother… and how dare he express fear or resentment if he’s dealing with a false accusation, because that’s a potential learning experience, and besides, it’s not like he’s been beaten up or raped or anything… but he also shouldn’t feel sorry for himself if he has been beaten or raped, because it’s not the same when it happens to him as when it happens to a whammon. And if he kills himself because of any of those things, that’s an act of aggression against the stunning and brave whammon whose experiences in relation to those issues are more important to consider. 

Besides, your complaints about discrimination in family court are invalid because deadbeats and abusers!

Dads only get shorted on parenting time because they don’t sue for more, as evidenced by the successes of Dads who get custody when a mother is unfit.

Mothers are the primary caregiver most of the time, so they should have primary custody. Alternating weekends give Dads plenty of time with their kids.

Mothers who have to share custody 50% of the time have separation anxiety. It’s very traumatic and painful. No parent should have to live with that!
Dads only want custody when it’ll get their child support obligation reduced or traumatize the mother, so none of them deserve it!

Single mothers totally fill the roles of both parents, so shut up and pay your imputed-income-based child support, mister provider!

Feminists who oppose equally shared parenting bills are not responsible for the continued inequality in family law after those bills fail, because NOT ALL FEMINISTS ARE LIKE THAT!

You can’t complain about custody issues if you want men to have reproductive rights like whammon do. Wanting men to have reproductive rights proves you don’t care about your children!

If any men don’t want to be fathers, no men are allowed to want to be fathers!

Men shouldn’t have their own long-term birth control like the pill because that would take control away from whammon.

Whammon shouldn’t be expected to use any of the many types of birth control available to them because sometimes the side-effects are bad. 

The reason men don’t have their own birth control pill is because the side-effects were bad. Therefore, they are wimps and have no reason to complain about their lack of reproductive rights!

Whammon have a right to a full spectrum of taxpayer-funded birth control and also abortion and safe-haven abandonment because they should be able to have iniscriminant sex without consequences!

Men shouldn’t have their own pill because they only want it so they can have indiscriminant sex without consequences! 

How dare you bring up birth control sabotage and paternity fraud? DNA testing is misogyny because women don’t lie about paternity! You don’t want to spend the next 18 years paying child support? Keep it your pants, you philandering deadbeat.
Whammon don’t use false accusations as a weapon in custody cases either. You just don’t want abusers held accountable!

It’s misogynistic to fear false accusations as a potential consequence of indiscriminant sex! If guys were more careful who they sleep with and under what circumstances, they wouldn’t be at so much risk for that!

False accusations are rare anyway so the problem isn’t important enough to address!
And by the way, whaddaya mean by false accusations? Whammon don’t lie about rape!

Men who have been falsely accused can learn from the experience!

False accusations have no impact on men. (Pay no attention to the falsely accused men who end up behind bars for years or get beaten to death by vigilantes!)

You can’t enforce perjury laws in rape cases. Holding false accusers accountable for their lies is victim blaming!

If you really cared about men’s issues you’d be talking about male victims of intimate partner and sexual violence instead of focusing so much on false accusations!

Shut up about male victims of intimate partner and sexual violence! You’re only talking about them to derail the conversation about female victims and distract from the issue of male violence!

Male victims of parter abuse aren’t important because statistics from research designed to bury evidence of female perpetration proves they’re rare.

Whammon who hit first aren’t abusers because eventually some guys hit back and cause injury. It’s pre-emptive self-defense!

It’s not discrimination to exclude male victims from abuse victim’s services and shelters. Those are whammon’s resources, and allowing men access and equal consideration would take those resources away from whammon.

Male victims don’t need services and shelters because stereotypes about size, strength, and invulnerability that totally aren’t the same thing feminists call “toxic masculinity” under other circumstances!
Men’s shelters are just there to shield abusers from prosecution by exploiting laws and policies created to protect whammon!

What, you’re angry about the lack of services for men? Why haven’t you single-handedly solved this problem yourself by building and funding shelters and services for male victims without access to any of the government and corporate funding behind whammon’s shelters and services?

You had an event once to raise awareness of men’s issues. If you can fund that, you should have been able to use that exact amount of money to build and indefinitely sustain a shelter!

How dare you dedicate funds to a men’s shelter? Give your money to whammon!

Besides, whammon’s shelters have programs for men… male perpetrator programs. That’s all that’s needed, right?

Stop complaining about wrongful imprisonment and overly harsh sentencing. If you don’t want to do the time, don’t commit the crime!
And how dare you bring up prison rape? Rape is a whammon’s issue!

Besides, men raped in prison are raped by other men, so it’s men’s fault and therefore nothing has to be done about it. We should be focused on protecting female prisoners instead.

Men can’t even be raped by whammon. Rape means penetration of the victim, and whammon don’t penetrate.
Nobody says it’s not rape when unwanted sex is forced on a man, as evidenced by the fact that some organization says it is. 

Men can be raped but it’s worse when it happens to whammon, so we shouldn’t call it the same thing.

Male victims of intimate partner and sexual violence don’t report their experiences to law enforcement because toxic masculinity!

Law enforcement and victim’s services don’t take male victims of intimate partner and sexual violence seriously, especially if their perpetrators are female... because toxic masculinity!

Criminal conviction statistics prove beyond question that most perpetrators of intimate partner and sexual violence are male & therefore initiatives to reduce these crimes need to focus exclusively on male perpetration, primarily against female victims.

Criminal conviction statistics are inaccurate! Survey statisticss show that the prevalence of sexual violence is much higher than crime statistics would indicate.
It’s ok that those surveys bury perpetration against men and boys by placing it in a lesser category instead of rape, because most rape victims are female anyway.

Bodily autonomy is a whammon’s issue. Stop trying to butt in!
Stop whining about circumcision. It’s not like it’s as bad as female genital mutilation, and besides, whammon think cut dicks are prettier!

This is not a men’s bodily autonomy issue because circumcision protects against HIV infection and whammon have a right to sex partners who aren’t going to infect them.

Why are you so obsessed with your dick, anyway? 

Gender disparities in the criminal justice system are men’s fault, because men are violent.

Female-perpetrated violence is men’s fault because whammon are angels unless a man makes them do bad things.

Whammon who commit crimes are disadvantaged and deserve rehabilitative services, but men who commit crimes are malicious and need to be reined in by the criminal justice system!

Due process advocacy is an attack on rape victims’ right to be believed!

We need whammon’s spaces to protect whammon-n-girls against domineering, rapey men. Whammon have a right to exclude men from whammon’s spaces in order to discuss whammon’s issues without any male interference.

Men’s spaces are discriminatory because they exclude whammon! You can’t discuss gender issues without female supervision. That’s misogyny! What are you planning in there, anyway, a middle-class whilte male supremacist takeover? Call the FBI! Call the SPLC! We can’t have these uppity men deciding their own interests and issues, now can we?

What do you have to advocate for anyway? Men have all the rights and don’t face any stereotypes, misconceptions, or unfair expectations just because they are men! They certainly don’t need their own advocacy movement!

Well, thank goodness that’s over with, but I guess there you have it, folks: Rrrrrrrrrrobust feminist arguments… the topic of this week’s HBR Talk. You can tune in Thursday at 7:30PM via the link in the lowbar, or find other viewing and listening options for that time or later, on

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