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A discussion rather than a debate, plumbing the depths of our souls (and sometimes those of our guests). A regular podcast by Shadi Hamid of the Brookings Institution and Damir Marusic of The American Interest magazine. Soon to be a major motion picture.

Basic concept of the show is: us hanging out in each other’s living rooms and trying to figure out why we believe the things we believe and working through the tensions and contradictions in real time. In that sense, we think of it as a deliberately “odd” podcast—raw, rambling, and almost entirely unscripted.

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